Design Idea - Multiclassing in B5

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Design Idea - Multiclassing in B5

Postby MongooseMatt » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:07 am

Hi guys,

New experimental rule for B5:

There shalt be no XP for multiclassing, ever.

Try out and discuss. I think B5 benefits from multiclassing characters much more than other d20 games and it is not the kind of RPG where power gaming either lurks or is particularly successful.

Let me know what the downsides are and, if there is any kind of consensus, we'll consider it for the B5 Companion.
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Postby CARTMAG » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:47 am

Mat I personaly like the idea of no multiclass penalty because you see throuught the show alot of multiclassing..
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Postby Silk » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:18 am

I like the idea, in the campaign I am about to start on Tuesdays, i'll run it by the players and see what they think.
I agree the game does lean towards mutliclass characters, more so than any other D20 system I have used.

Good idea :)
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Postby Agent One » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:33 am

Matt:

Make it a feat. Well-Rounded, or something like that. Any character with this feat suffers no experience penalty for multi-classing. If the character begins play as a Worker (but not if he multi-classes into Worker later) he gains this feat for free, since those who start their careers as Workers have usually spent a lot of time earlier in life on various jobs and with a broad education.
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Postby Neo » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:20 am

Agent One wrote:Matt:

Make it a feat. Well-Rounded, or something like that. Any character with this feat suffers no experience penalty for multi-classing. If the character begins play as a Worker (but not if he multi-classes into Worker later) he gains this feat for free, since those who start their careers as Workers have usually spent a lot of time earlier in life on various jobs and with a broad education.
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree, I just don't see multiclassing without penalty being a "Feat" kind of affair myself. It would also cause level gaps as a feat with those who picked the feat benefitting far more than those who didn't, which would also create the impetus for everyone to pick it or miss out, which if that happens to me says then either people should ALL have it from the get go, or noone should.

Way I'd personally prefer it is the no penalty for multiclassing either applies for ALL equally, simply as "how" multiclassing works now, sort of thing.
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Postby Silk » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:46 am

Yeah got to agree with neo on that, I don't like the feat idea (Good idea to throw in though).
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Re: Design Idea - Multiclassing in B5

Postby saberj » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:42 pm

msprange wrote:Hi guys,

New experimental rule for B5:

There shalt be no XP for multiclassing, ever.

Try out and discuss. I think B5 benefits from multiclassing characters much more than other d20 games and it is not the kind of RPG where power gaming either lurks or is particularly successful.

Let me know what the downsides are and, if there is any kind of consensus, we'll consider it for the B5 Companion.

Actually, my group has been playing with this rule since we started about a month and a half back. We were thinking along those same rules. Since Babylon 5 isnt quite as combat oriented, Multiclassing isn't such an advantage that you need penalties.
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Postby psyclonejack » Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:06 pm

No XP penalty? hmm, allow me to think outloud. That way if I think wrong you gents can kindly (<-- key word) help me out.

Total 5th Level Character
Levels: Officer-1/Agent-1/Diplomat-1/Lurker-1/Scientist-1
Bab: +1 Fort:+2 Ref:+2 Will:+6
Feats/class Abilities Total: 8
Average Hps:13
Skill pnts bsed on 10 Int: 42

5th Level Officer
Bab: +5 Fort:+1 Ref:+1 Will:+4
Feats/class Abilities Total: 4
Average Hps:15
Skill pnts bsed on 10 Int: 32

Initial reaction, Bad. If my thoughts are correct. This powers up a character quite a bit. You can dramaticly increase your feats and abilities, not to mention get a good boost early on with saves. We all know those are critical at all levels. The skill point ratio is understandable because Officers get the least per level.

Secondary take, 'Tis Okay. Once a person finishes the initial multi-classing and settles on a class to finish with, his character will slow in its progression forward. This 'slow' will allow the other straight level players to catch him in feats and abilities, as well as saves.

My finial answer - Sounds fine as long as the player can come up with a reasonable answer for so many multi-classes.

Apologies for Drawn out Logic,
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Postby CARTMAG » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:34 pm

in that vane if a character did that he would be weak beyond anything. since he realy wouldnt get any of the kool abilities any of the single classes give. and if i was the DM i would ask for a damn really good explinaitin for all of them
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Postby Morden » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:02 pm

I'm in favor of this. Of course I'm the type of GM that doesn't dwell on a lot of rules restrictions unless there are players who are intent on abusing them. Luckily I have a good group of players, so I'm willing to give them some slack.

As for the benefits of taking a lot of different classes, I'm not sure that XP penalties are the right way to address the problem. I would rather see rules that restrict on initial class class benefits. But then the example given isn't so far out of balance that it would dramatically affect the game IMO.
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Postby Greg Smith » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:14 am

I disagree with multi-classing penalties. If a player wants to play an officer who has resigned and gone on to be a worker, it is unlikely he will ever gain levels in officer again. I don't think such a character should be penalised.

However if a player is blantantly abusing the system, the GM should just say 'No'. There's no need for for multiclassing penalties in B5 IMHO.
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Postby KDLadage » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:31 pm

Greg Smith wrote:{snip} However if a player is blantantly abusing the system, the GM should just say 'No'. There's no need for for multiclassing penalties in B5 IMHO.
Agreed. Which means we can leave behind this whole "favored class" thing as well and move on.

In a related note, I would like there to be more "core classes" as options for players to take; or for rules akin to the new worker rules (aka: profession rules) used as "filters and lenses" for the extant core classes.
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Postby Agent One » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:04 pm

*snickers at your sig* Doesn't the Primus have four battle lasers? Or was this something from 1st Edition that we corrected in 2nd Edition?
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Postby KDLadage » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:59 pm

Agent One wrote:*snickers at your sig* Doesn't the Primus have four battle lasers? Or was this something from 1st Edition that we corrected in 2nd Edition?
Oops... That would be a typo... yes, it has four battle-lasers.

I am a Centauri player, to the bone. And despite the Primus being a bit undergunned (compared to, say... the Omega -- just how many guns are on that monster?), and a little fragile in the front end (comapred to say most comparable Narn)... I love that ship. It is my favorite to play (with the Octurian Battleship, the Demos Heavy Warship and the Vorchar Warscout getting a three-way-tie for second place).

BTW (and way off topic): Who designed the Octurian? That has to be the most maneuverable battleship shy of ancient races in the game! Keep him at a distance with a couple of Guardian-array equiped escorts (any of the Mograth variants work nicely)and hitting him becomes darned near impossible; especially with missiles.
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Postby Eryx » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:04 pm

psyclonejack wrote:No XP penalty? hmm, allow me to think outloud. That way if I think wrong you gents can kindly (<-- key word) help me out.

Total 5th Level Character
Levels: Officer-1/Agent-1/Diplomat-1/Lurker-1/Scientist-1
The player of this character had better be a damn good roleplayer to get this many classes. The only way (in B5) to multiclass is if the character does something that warrents taking a new level in a class.

In my current campaign, one of the players (a Lurker) has spent time working with another character (a Soldier) who is a B5 Security Guard, and wanted to try and pick up some of what that character has shown him, so I agreed that he could take a level in Soldier at 2nd. I agreed to this because the character in question had been roleplaying his character well and it made a sense.

This isn't D&D, so any multiclassing should make sense and becasuse of that I think removing the XP penalty is a good idea.
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Postby psyclonejack » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:20 pm

Eryx wrote: The player of this character had better be a damn good roleplayer to get this many classes. The only way (in B5) to multiclass is if the character does something that warrents taking a new level in a class.
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A Child was born <fast forward> he became a fine EF Officer. One that was too good in Intellegence. Got mixed up in some Tech smuggling, notified his CO, who used this oppurtunity to start a sting to catch the Smugglers. Thus he became an undercover agent working for EF. Turns out the Smugglers were linked to the Narn regime, now he finds himself (currently working for the smugglers) promoted into larger circles. He is rubbing shoulders with the Diplomats and has to blend in to protect his cover. Well EF has enough evidence, finally worked out some deals with the non-involved Narn's. And presto chango EF launches the Sting. It goes south, we all knew it would. The once proud officer finds himself hunted by both the Narn Regime, and his own EF government as well. Only place to hide, B5 downbelow. Now for the first few weeks he lurks, survives, finally gets over his own depression, and tries to help people. He uses all the skills he has learned to try to improve a few peoples lives in Downbelow. Well this puts him on the radar and Dr. Franklin, who runs a clinic down there, just got a new assistant.

Would that work for ya?
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Postby Eryx » Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:58 pm

Would that work for ya?
Heh. If the player roleplayed that through the whole campaign and did it well enough to convince me that he could multiclass through those clesses then fine. However, the player would really have to convince me though.
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