Darkness and light

Discuss Mongoose RPGs here, such as the OGL rulebooks, Jeremiah, Armageddon 2089 and Macho Women with Guns
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migutse
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Darkness and light

Postby migutse » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:11 pm

Hi,
After creating characters for my campaign, I was planning to order new B5 books and was interested about the Darkness and light souce book. I tried to find reviews for the book, but didn't find any. I ordered the book anyway, but was wondering if anybody could give their opinions about the book, so that I know what to expect.
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Postby ronbogard » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:19 pm

Sorry just ordered it myself. :oops:
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Postby Traveller-61 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:22 pm

My opinion - GREAT!! :D
It gives you a lot of details about the Shadows and Vorlons including rules for playing them as PCs and good advice for using them properly as NPCs (plus their servitor races and agents); a history of their conflict (including the great Thirdspace War and the origin of The Hand) & lots of devices and gadgets for both.
I'm not sure I agreed with the writer 100% on his version of the history of the galaxy but he did a good job. And how can you not love a book that gives you the stats for the Holy Grail!! :lol:

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Postby migutse » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:14 pm

Thanks for the info T-61. Does the book have anything about Lorien and the other First-ones besides Vorlons and Shadows?
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Postby Traveller-61 » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:37 pm

It mentions them in passing but no real details (like stats or ships :cry: ).
I hope that Mongoose might do a book about all the Ancients in the future... (he said keeping his fingers firmly crossed!! :lol: )

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Postby Shadow Queen » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:36 pm

If you dont have it get the Technomage book
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Vorlon ship costs

Postby EricRoss » Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:26 pm

I was looking at the technologies included in the Vorlon fighter, transport, and Star Dreadnaught and it looks to me like the point totals are way off. A fighter or transport costs 40 TP and the Dreadnaught costs 100 TP. I added up what it would cost a Vorlon to build these ships and the transport seems to have a cost of over 200 points, the Dreadnaught way over that, close to 1,000 TP. I believe that the low cost listed for these ships represents the fact that a Vorlon should be able to get ahold of, or breed one. Therefore I have designed two Vorlon ships and given them a TP cost that places them in between the transport and the Dreadnaught. Here they are:

Vorlon Destroyer:
Gargantuan Spacecraft: hp 100; DV 14 (-4 size, +8 agility); DR 16; Spd45; Acc 8; Dcc 8; Han +6; Sensor +18; Stealth 40; SQ Adaptive Armor, Artificial Gravity, Atmosphere Capable, Jump Point, Living Ship; Cargo 1,000lbs.; No crew required

Weapons:
One Discharge Cannon: Front; Attack +8 (targeting computer); Damage 250+5d10; Critical 19-20; Range 4

TP: 60



Vorlon Light Cruiser:
Colossal II Spacecraft: hp 600; DV 12 (-10 size, +12 agility); DR 16; Spd-; Acc 8; Dcc 8; Han +6; Sensor +18; Stealth 40; SQ Adaptive Armor, Artificial Gravity, Atmosphere Capable, Jump Point, Living Ship; Cargo 150,000lbs.; No crew required

Weapons:
One Discharge Cannon: Front; Attack +10 (targeting computer); Damage 750+7d10; Critical 19-20; Range 8

TP: 80


and here is my take on a Vorlon NPC:

Ululer
Level 10 Vorlon-P17
Hit Points: 57 Initiative: +2 (+7 out of encounter suit) Speed: 50 DV: 15 (20 out of encounter suit) DR: 15 (0 out of encounter suit)
Attacks: Melee: +14/9, Ranged: +12/7 (17/12)
Abilities: Str: 18, Dex: 14 (24 out of encounter suit), Con: 18, Int: 20, Wis: 18, Cha: 20
Saves: Fort: 11, Ref: 5 (10 out of encounter suit), Will: 11 (opponents Will save: 37)
Skills: Computer Operation 7 (12), Concentration 6 (10), Diplomacy 7 (12), Gather Information 7 (12), Knowledge [telepathy] 10 (15), Knowledge [Alien Life] 7 (12),Knowledge [astrophysics] 7(12), Medical 8 (15), Pilot 4 (6/11 out of encounter suit), Sense Motive 7 (11), Technical [organic] 7 (12),Technical [Space Travel] 12 (20),Technical [structural engineering] 12 (20),Technical [electronics] 7 (12),Technical [engineering] 5 (10),Technical [spacecraft operation] 7 (12), Telepathy 13 (18).
Weapons: All Vorlon Weapons
Feats & SQ: Aspect (Vorl) Immortality, Flight, Phasing, Telepathy (level 4 [P17, Angel Guise, Communication, Surface Scan, Deep Scan, Mind Shield, Mind Mirror, Pain, Sense Telepathy, Warning, Danger Sense, Locate Mind, Second Sight, Soul Riding, Dream Walk, Jamming, Nerve Stimulation, False Memory Implantation, Reality Fabrication]), Skill Emphasis-Technical [Space Travel], Skill Empasis-Technical [Structural Engineering], Secondary Aspect (Uler), Skill Empasis-Medical, Mindshredder

Equipment: Encounter Suit (DR 15; Force Field level 1 [1 TP to activate, 200 hp]; Translator; Cloak level 2 [2 TP to activate, +10 to DC to detect the Vorlon]; Blast level 2 [4 TP to activate, 2d10+25 damage, range increment 200 ft]; Decrease Disturbance [the Vorlon can decrease Disturbance by -2 instead of -1 for every +10% TP spent], Vorlon Transport, Vorlon Light Cruiser.

TP: 25 (20 used)

*edited to remove smilies
Last edited by EricRoss on Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Traveller-61 » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:27 am

I think that this was answered in a previous thread - the reason for the low points cost was that these are standard designs that have been around for a long, long time and their production is a well practiced art.

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Postby EricRoss » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:21 pm

that could be. I would say that since the designs I did above are based on mini's I saw on the ACTA site, that they should also be 'old' designs, but that is up to any GM in question. Heck a GM using hem for a Vorlon NPC would nothave to justify the TP use to their players so it hardly matters from that perspective.What do you think of the designs and NPC, by the way?
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Postby nitflegal » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:29 pm

Honestly, I think it's probably the best B5 sourcebook out so far. It does a great job of explaining the Vorlons and Shadows and having them feel right. Beyond that, there are some really clever adventure hooks detailed in there (I especially liked the one that I had certainly never considered; what did Sebastian do when the Vorlons abruptly left?). It also has some good idea as to how to incorporate the First Ones into a campaign without watering them down.

Over all, I thought it was an excellent piece of writing. Now, if Mongoose would just turn him loose on a Drakh book (maybe an expansion book on the Shadow servitors?) and perhaps a book on the rst of the First Ones, I'd be happy.

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Postby Mongoose Gar » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:03 pm

Heh. Playtesting on my Drakh book is ending as I type.

As for the other first ones...I'm really hesitant about doing anything on them. They just don't interact with the younger races, which makes them hard to use in the context of an rpg. Personally, I'd fold them into the IPX book.
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Postby nitflegal » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:59 am

Mongoose Gar wrote:Heh. Playtesting on my Drakh book is ending as I type.

As for the other first ones...I'm really hesitant about doing anything on them. They just don't interact with the younger races, which makes them hard to use in the context of an rpg. Personally, I'd fold them into the IPX book.
Actually, I did have a question or two, if you wouldn't mind. You mention the Streib as being possibly fled from the Shadows but they show up in the flowchart for 'The Dark" as Shadow technicians. Was that an oops or is there something deeper that I'm missing. For the record, I think it's pretty silly that the Streib are Shadow minions but, since they are specifically mentioned in "Summoning Light", one has to include them (which is why I put 'em in the Technomage history section, teeth grit).

Oh, and any chance you're covering the Wurt in the Drakh book?

Thanks and again, very well done on the book!

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Postby Ulkesh » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:02 am

Still waiting for my copy of this book.....whats taking the post so long?! *shakes fist* Anyway wanted to ask, do the Shadows Soldiers of Darkness get mentioned? I wanted to wait for the book but this is killing me! :p

Is there an IPX book coming out?
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Postby Mongoose Gar » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:56 am

nitflegal wrote:Actually, I did have a question or two, if you wouldn't mind. You mention the Streib as being possibly fled from the Shadows but they show up in the flowchart for 'The Dark" as Shadow technicians. Was that an oops or is there something deeper that I'm missing. For the record, I think it's pretty silly that the Streib are Shadow minions but, since they are specifically mentioned in "Summoning Light", one has to include them (which is why I put 'em in the Technomage history section, teeth grit).

Oh, and any chance you're covering the Wurt in the Drakh book?
Missed this when it was posted...
The Streib showing up in the flowchart was a mistake- it should be Zener. (To be honest, the whole Streib/Zener thing seems to be a long-standing confusion elsewhere too - JMS says they're not Shadow servants, but as you point out, they're in Summoning Light. Pesky Streib.)

The Drakh book is Wurtless, I'm afraid, partly because it's obviously Drakh-centric, but mainly because we know absolutely nothing about the Wurt. (Did AoG ever do anything with 'em?)
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Postby frobisher » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:24 am

Mongoose Gar wrote:The Drakh book is Wurtless, I'm afraid, partly because it's obviously Drakh-centric, but mainly because we know absolutely nothing about the Wurt. (Did AoG ever do anything with 'em?)
Nope :(

The TM trilogy is kinda light on detail for who the Wurt are as well. In fact all the way through I was asking myself, "Who the hell are they?".

The assumption I've made is they are the "Alien Surgeons" who work with the Drakh, but it's only an assumption. Though they could be the footsoldiers that work for the Drakh (they're not quite the same so could be a seperate species, after all the one that spoke to Delenn never confirmed that he was a Drakh when asked, but was "Emissary for Drakh") though you'll know yourself what they "really are" ;).
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Postby Ulkesh » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:51 pm

Some people thought those nomadic aliens that attacked B5 in season 5 (you know the ones in red armour and stuff) were the Wurt but some people also thought they might be the Wen'Dan Horde.
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Postby Aramanthus » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:37 am

An interesting thought! I'll have to watch the episode again and check my other resources.
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Postby Ulkesh » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:21 am

Well those aliens were only shown once and not much was given on them, not even a name so its just a theory by some people.
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Postby Razuur » Tue May 02, 2006 5:11 pm

Your not serious are you? Rules for running and playing Vorlons and Shadows... as PCs?

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Postby lastbesthope » Tue May 02, 2006 7:26 pm

Razuur wrote:Your not serious are you? Rules for running and playing Vorlons and Shadows... as PCs?

Razuur
No kidding, Vorlon and Shadow PCs, but not Macs :lol:

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