Places Mongoose got it Wrong

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Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby The Cheat » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:14 am

This is not intended as imflamatory or condecending: I fully support the job you've done so far and all the hard work you put into it, Babylon 5 would be a poorer place without you guys. However, we cannot help but notice several places with proof-reading errors, ommissions, or flat-out contradictions to the historically-deep Babylon 5 universe as it stands. I'm creating this thread as a resource for the much awaited 2nd Edition, in the hopes that we can fix what needs to be fixed.

Yes, I maintain a pro-AOG standpoint. However, I see no reason for any of the B5 licenses to be inconsistent with one another, particularly in the technological and strategic aspects AOG has written quite well and consistently.




)Most obvious is the Narn Biology section. You don't even mention the fact that Narns are marsupial, a constantly and consistently referenced detail from the show. I know you guys have already heard a lot about that, but it's on the list.
My copy also had several pages misorganized and out of order. Was this a common occurance?

)The Notes on the Minbari Military are quite frankly baffeling to me. I'd much rather had you guys explain (because JMS didn't do it that well) how and why a Military Caste exists (and ~30% of the population at that) when each caste controls 1/3rd of the battlefleet. I can only assume that there is a difference between official and actual ownership, as well as quality. How many auxillary roles do the Warriors preform for themselves (starship maintenance, weapons manufacture and testing, etc.) to keep their population busy, and how much do they delegate to the lesser worker caste? Perhaps the majority of the warrior caste population is actually ground pounders, with starship assignment as a prestigious posting?
I also noted that some of the early dates (rising to the stars through the first shadow war) seem highly compressed given the technological and terratorial advancement of the Minbari as a whole (even the War Without End proto-tinashi's seem to have gravitic drives).

)The Dilgar War: I was just honestly wondering why you guys changed the map (perhaps to show a more realistic developement of powers, the Torotha are in a horrible spot for their expansionist policies). Being different for the sake of difference seems quite odd to me, perhaps you had limited access to the Dilgar War book in order to properly compare the two?
Also, there's the issue with the art. Yes, you guys are making off quiet well by only using free, open-source images instead of contracting your own work. By why in God's name are you using pictures of the show-ship (which I personally believe was a one-off constructed by the Wind Swords as a gesture of alliance) in the Core Rules and the Earthforce Sourcebook when YOU YOURSELVES are making the AOG models for ACTA? It doesn't make any sense, you would have been better off omitting pictures entirely or showing clips of Jah'dur. Same goes for that craptastic Brakiri fighter in the core book over Faloskis or Pikitos.
Is there an issue with obtaining AOG-level art? There's still several good meshes based on their designs (particularly the Bin'Tak and the Balvarian, but I've seen Morshins and true Vorlon Dreadnoughts here and there).

)The Earthforce Rank Structure
This is the particular bedbug of mine. Almost every source (B5 Security Manual, The Earthforce Sourcebook of which I've only had a marginal look at, and in particular fan-internet sources) gets it wrong from the show. They seem to think it's a carbon copy of the US Rank system, complete with difference in Army and Navy. The show shows a far more integrated structure. Here is what I have from the show, complete with names an command position, with a little commentary.

O-1) Ensign: Now, as far as I know, we've never seen an ensign by name. However, it is a completely vital post that nobody can really get away from. There in, however, no need to make everybody (particuarly the bridge-crew of B5) officers, this isn't Star Trek. In fact, most of the technical and operational work in today's navy, even sensor operation on submarines, is done by enlisted men. However, there is obviously a large degree of education required to crew a starship. Most officers are also college graduates.
Examples: I'd suppose that Keffer might be one, but I can't recall him being named by rank. I seek to remember an ensign in A Call to Arms (the same woman who played the Excalibur doctor). We do know that low-level jobs, such as staffing the interceptor arrays and such, are preformed by warrent officers and chief warrent officers, as of AOGs Showdowns-2 fluff (he even got an honorary masters for an invention relating to his work, apparently you have to go back to the Earthforce Academy for officer training).

O-2) Lieutenant: Another obviously required post, and actually referenced in the show, this one usually requires management over enlisted personnel. There may be a separation in this class, along modern lines, in which case I'd suggest 1st and 2nd Lieutenant, just because it is so obviously cooler than that Navy "junior grade" schtuff. :D
Examples: From what I remember of the flashback episode (Path of Sorrow), Gideon was a lieutenant when he was leading the Marine detatchment and the repair team on the Cerberus. There's also Matheson, who seems like an incredibly inexperianced post to be XO on a ship as important as the Excalibur. Perhaps that's mearly Gideon's way of shortening "Lt. Commander"?

O-3/4) Lt. Commander: All the references in the show see this as an XO position, usually junior for a post like B5 (but then, so was Sinclair, and ship commanders appear to have unusual autonomy in picking their crew and XOs). Perhapse this is the minimum command rank for an Earthforce Escort Vessel, like Artemis's or Tethys's?
Examples: Ivanova. I'm sure we've seen others.

O-5) Commander: Commander is certainly a command rank, as well as an XO, and, while junior for a place like the Babylon 5 station, it is certainly shown in other parts of the fleet. It is apparently a good spot for a Dispatch Censor (Commander Devon McLevish, Showdowns-2). This may be the highest rank a Fighter-pilot can achieve, as a Commander: Air Group (CAG), before being transferred to ship command, of vessels like the Omega and Poseidon. I'd expect most would transfer after Lt. Commander, however, given that you can still recieve fighter-pay in other positions, as long as you keep re-qualifying (even from places like Captain and Chief of Security).
Examples: Sinclair, Ivanova. I remember several of the bit-part XOs being Commanders.

O-6) Captain: Ah, the rank we all know and love (and hate the Air Force and Army for making things confusing when they're temporarily on-board). This is the minimum required rank for important EA Units, like Warlocks, Explorers, and I'd assume sensitive and strategic craft like Oracles, Delphis, and Poseidons.
Examples: Sheridan, Ivanova (after her promotion to the Titans Warlock (damn they got those out quick), this may have been political but she's still a captain)

O-7) Major: And here's where everybody gets it wrong. Everyone assumes that major is a GROPOS rank, when both times we've seen one (War Without End, Severed Dreams, and in the unfilmed Crusade The End of the Line), he's been a primary command officer capable of ordering around important people, even captains. This is not a mid-level army rank. From what I can tell, it's analogous to Commodore, and these guys are usually acting as personal adjuncts to Generals. This may be the minimum rank for important Top-Secret Clearance (Ultraviolet, etc.), like the secret EA base where they build the Shadow-Hybrids and the Victory-analog.
Examples: Major Ryan (Severed Dreams), Major Lee (The End of the Line).

O-8+) General: About half of B5-related material gets this right, the rest call him Admiral. It is functionally equal to the modern Admiral, apparently all the way to the top, though we have no idea how many sub-ranks it has (this could be based like the current system, in which case 5). We've seen them commanding ships personally, but that's probably because EA inter-ship networking is much, much better than ours and a General can direct a fleet from the Captain's chair. The word "Flagship" means that there's one of these gus aboard, and there's probably one on every Posiedon (with the second C&C). However, most fleet commanders appear to be stationed on Omegas (probably the -Gamma model) because it's more combat-worthy.
It is apparently a fully-valid path of advancement for the GROPOS cadre, as well, given General Franklin, hero of Balos, but then I happen to believe that the above list of officers fully applies to all branches of Earthforce, things only splitting (due to perfectly distinctive set of expected roles) in the Enlisted/NCO area.
Examples: General Hague, General Leftcourt, General Franklin. There was also a russian General in command of the Earth Fleet in A Call to Arms.

O*) Admiral: We've only seen this rank once in fluff, and never in the show to my knowledge. Admiral Hamato led the entire Earthforce Expeditionary Fleet to invading the League of Non-Aligned Worlds and defeating the Dilgar. From what I can tell, Admiral is not a rank itself, but a job description: the ultimate leader of an entire Earthforce Fleet (and not just individual fleets/battlegroups, but the big organisation they come from). Much like Narn Warleaders (who are in charge of Gold, Blue, Black, Silver and Red Fleets), I'd expect that there are admirals for Colonial, Exploratory, Sol System Defense, and Patrol Fleets, as well as a new one being apointed each time a major war starts, like the Dilgar, Minbari, Civil, and Drakh Wars.
Examples: Admiral Hamato


There, done. :D Feel free to add to the list, the more we show here, the better 2nd Edition will be.


)One more question, since I don't have access to the Earthforce Campaign Guide: Was marriage between crew or officers covered? In the modern day, fraternization between ranks was uber verbotten, but such isn't the case in Earthforce, presumably to give the Earth soldiery a more sensical relationship for year-long cruises and build a tradition, as well as having 2 & 1/2 centuries to get the whole "Civil Rights" argument sorted out. :D
From Showdowns-3, we see that Earthforce has a convienient arrangement regarding dating (only while off-duty), as well as even marrying people on-board (even across-ranks, Chief Petty Officer William Relford and Sergeant Tanya Pethier). Married couples of course get their own quarters. Just thought I'd throw that one out there in case you guys didn't know. :wink:
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby Matt Sharp » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:22 pm

The Cheat wrote:
O-1) Ensign: Now, as far as I know, we've never seen an ensign by name. However, it is a completely vital post that nobody can really get away from. There in, however, no need to make everybody (particuarly the bridge-crew of B5) officers, this isn't Star Trek. In fact, most of the technical and operational work in today's navy, even sensor operation on submarines, is done by enlisted men. However, there is obviously a large degree of education required to crew a starship. Most officers are also college graduates.
Nevertheless, everyone seen working in C&C is of officer rank (you can tell by their uniforms and rank insignia).
The Cheat wrote: Examples: I'd suppose that Keffer might be one, but I can't recall him being named by rank. I seek to remember an ensign in A Call to Arms (the same woman who played the Excalibur doctor). We do know that low-level jobs, such as staffing the interceptor arrays and such, are preformed by warrent officers and chief warrent officers, as of AOGs Showdowns-2 fluff (he even got an honorary masters for an invention relating to his work, apparently you have to go back to the Earthforce Academy for officer training).
Keffer was a Lieutenant - he's referred to as such when he's promoted to Wing Commander of Zeta Wing and whenever he was being told off - and, again, you can tell by his rank insignia.

There is indeed an ensign in A Call to Arms.
The Cheat wrote:O-2) Lieutenant: Another obviously required post, and actually referenced in the show, this one usually requires management over enlisted personnel. There may be a separation in this class, along modern lines, in which case I'd suggest 1st and 2nd Lieutenant, just because it is so obviously cooler than that Navy "junior grade" schtuff. :D
Examples: From what I remember of the flashback episode (Path of Sorrow), Gideon was a lieutenant when he was leading the Marine detatchment and the repair team on the Cerberus. There's also Matheson, who seems like an incredibly inexperianced post to be XO on a ship as important as the Excalibur. Perhaps that's mearly Gideon's way of shortening "Lt. Commander"?
Corwyn gets promoted from Lieutenant Junior Grade to Lieutenant during season three (I can't remember which episode off hand, I'm afraid!) Matheson became XO of the Excalibur because Gideon was allowed to choose his own team and wanted him as his XO.
The Cheat wrote:O-5) Commander: Commander is certainly a command rank, as well as an XO, and, while junior for a place like the Babylon 5 station, it is certainly shown in other parts of the fleet. It is apparently a good spot for a Dispatch Censor (Commander Devon McLevish, Showdowns-2). This may be the highest rank a Fighter-pilot can achieve, as a Commander: Air Group (CAG), before being transferred to ship command, of vessels like the Omega and Poseidon. I'd expect most would transfer after Lt. Commander, however, given that you can still recieve fighter-pay in other positions, as long as you keep re-qualifying (even from places like Captain and Chief of Security).
Examples: Sinclair, Ivanova. I remember several of the bit-part XOs being Commanders.
I don't recall anyone getting referred to as a CAG - Keffer is made 'Commander' of Zeta Wing (although he isn't promoted, so I guess this means he has the title 'Wing Commander' (or somehting) while remaining a lieutenant.) The term 'Air Group' is a bit meaningless in space, anyway :)

Plus, Babylon 5 is a base and not an aircraft carrier, so it wouldn't have a CAG anyway.

Remember that you can have titles that are completely different to ranks - for example, Garibaldi's title is Chief of Security, but his rank remains Chief Warrant Officer, First Class (again, you can tell by his uniform and rank insignia...)
The Cheat wrote:O-7) Major: And here's where everybody gets it wrong. Everyone assumes that major is a GROPOS rank, when both times we've seen one (War Without End, Severed Dreams, and in the unfilmed Crusade The End of the Line), he's been a primary command officer capable of ordering around important people, even captains. This is not a mid-level army rank. From what I can tell, it's analogous to Commodore, and these guys are usually acting as personal adjuncts to Generals. This may be the minimum rank for important Top-Secret Clearance (Ultraviolet, etc.), like the secret EA base where they build the Shadow-Hybrids and the Victory-analog.
Examples: Major Ryan (Severed Dreams), Major Lee (The End of the Line).
Major wouldn't be a GROPOS rank anyway - that term only refers to the grunt level infantry (sergeant and below)...

I assume that Major is some sort of specialist rank or a hold over from somewhere else (combining all the armed forces of Earth is bound to lead to all sorts of rank anomalies!) - Major Ryan's rank insignia looks nothing like anyone else, anyway... It's possible that he's some sort of tactical specialist.
The Cheat wrote:O-8+) General: About half of B5-related material gets this right, the rest call him Admiral. It is functionally equal to the modern Admiral, apparently all the way to the top, though we have no idea how many sub-ranks it has (this could be based like the current system, in which case 5). We've seen them commanding ships personally, but that's probably because EA inter-ship networking is much, much better than ours and a General can direct a fleet from the Captain's chair. The word "Flagship" means that there's one of these gus aboard, and there's probably one on every Posiedon (with the second C&C). However, most fleet commanders appear to be stationed on Omegas (probably the -Gamma model) because it's more combat-worthy.
It is apparently a fully-valid path of advancement for the GROPOS cadre, as well, given General Franklin, hero of Balos, but then I happen to believe that the above list of officers fully applies to all branches of Earthforce, things only splitting (due to perfectly distinctive set of expected roles) in the Enlisted/NCO area.
Examples: General Hague, General Leftcourt, General Franklin. There was also a russian General in command of the Earth Fleet in A Call to Arms.
There's five ranks of General, as shown by their rank insignia - General Hague (one of the Joint Chiefs) is a five star General.
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby frobisher » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:46 pm

The Cheat wrote: O-1) Ensign: Now, as far as I know, we've never seen an ensign by name.
The most notable Ensign we've seen portrayed in the series is Ensign Mathew Gideon of the Cerberus ;) Now, clearly he was placed in command of the damage control party which implies he outranked them...
The Cheat wrote:Examples: I'd suppose that Keffer might be one, but I can't recall him being named by rank.
He was a Lieutenant...
The Cheat wrote:O-2) Lieutenant: Another obviously required post, and actually referenced in the show, this one usually requires management over enlisted personnel. There may be a separation in this class, along modern lines, in which case I'd suggest 1st and 2nd Lieutenant, just because it is so obviously cooler than that Navy "junior grade" schtuff. :D
Actually we have First and Second Lt's in the show - Corwin is promoted from the latter to the first in the show...
The Cheat wrote:Perhaps that's mearly Gideon's way of shortening "Lt. Commander"?
Which would be incorrect - the shortend form would be Commander.
The Cheat wrote:O-7) Major:
And here's where everybody gets it wrong. Everyone assumes that major is a GROPOS rank, when both times we've seen one (War Without End, Severed Dreams, and in the unfilmed Crusade The End of the Line), he's been a primary command officer capable of ordering around important people, even captains.
Actually you're wrong here. Major Ryan defers to Sheriden in Severed Dreams. Not because he's "First Rebel" (name the game :) ) but because Sheriden outranks him. If General Hague had made it to Babylon 5 guess who whould have been running the show..?

The Major in charge of B4 again, followed Commander Sinclair's orders pretty much.

The guy in "End of Line" didn't pull rank, but "legitimate", signed orders and authority.

Nope, doesn't fly.

Then there's the protocol issue. Ground force Captains, when serving aboard Naval vessels are referred to as Major to avoid confusion... We might have only come across one actual Major (End of the Line).
The Cheat wrote:O*) Admiral: We've only seen this rank once in fluff, and never in the show to my knowledge.
There is a mention of an Admiral in the show once - will need to go digging for the source.
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby Pauly_D » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:33 pm

The Cheat wrote:)The Dilgar War: I was just honestly wondering why you guys changed the map (perhaps to show a more realistic developement of powers
i mentioned that before and other points were the AOG maps werent contradicting anything on the show so i dont know why it got changed
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Postby Chernobyl » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:58 pm

I believe that the rank system is fairly similiar to what we have today

2LT
1LT
CAPT
MAJ
LTCOL
COL

ENS
LTJG
LT
LTCDR
CDR
CAPT

don't confuse rank with Billet. An officers's authority dervies both from his position and his rank. There can commonly be several person's of the same rank on board wih different levels of authority.

A Major who is a staff officer for a General or Admiral or something will basically have the authority of the admiral in their day to day dealings with other personnel.

On my carrier we had so many O-6's it was crazy. My department head, was a Capt., the XO was a Capt, the CO was a Captain, the CAG was a Captain, the CMO was a Captain.
My department head (the Reactor Officer) was formerly a CO of a CGN. so in essence, as an O-5, it was a step up for him to become dept. head on a larger ship. The CVN is a more important asset than a CGN, and he's directly responsible for more personel than on the cruiser. he was later promoted to O-6. Once you reach O-4 the beaurocracy has more control of promotions (a promotion board)

I'm sure that there probably would have been a B5 "air group" commander figure had JMS needed the role to appear on screen for some reason. The fact that there was never one on screen doesn't mean there wasn't one. Remember, it was TV show on a budget first of all. Given the restrictions of network TV, they did a remarkable job keeping thing consistant for the most part.

In a current context, damage control parties are an assigned duty, not a billet. if the damage had occured in a different area of the ship, the duty would have fallen to someone else's "repair locker"
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Postby Aramanthus » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:11 am

In the B5 game I'm playing on line my character is the CAG on Babylon 5 during the first season. It is a military command, even though it is in neutral space.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:34 am

I was going to make some points, but Sharpy made most of them.

Everyone who mentions 1st and 2nd Lts has missed what Sharpy pointed out, Corwin is promoted from Lt JG to full Lt in one episode, so that must be the way it works for EF Blues anyway.

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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby Matt Sharp » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:48 am

frobisher wrote:
The Cheat wrote:O-2) Lieutenant: Another obviously required post, and actually referenced in the show, this one usually requires management over enlisted personnel. There may be a separation in this class, along modern lines, in which case I'd suggest 1st and 2nd Lieutenant, just because it is so obviously cooler than that Navy "junior grade" schtuff. :D
Actually we have First and Second Lt's in the show - Corwin is promoted from the latter to the first in the show...
It definately uses the Navy rank system - 'as of 0630 hrs tomorrow morning, Lieutenant JG David Corwyn is promoted to Full Lieutenant'
-Kat the barkeeper, Exogenesis.
frobisher wrote:There is a mention of an Admiral in the show once - will need to go digging for the source.
EarthForce admirals are mentioned in '...and the Sky Full of Stars' and 'Signs & Portents'.
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Postby frobisher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:07 am

lastbesthope wrote:Everyone who mentions 1st and 2nd Lts has missed what Sharpy pointed out, Corwin is promoted from Lt JG to full Lt in one episode, so that must be the way it works for EF Blues anyway.
Except there is a point of contradiction. In the on screen caption in "And Now For a Word" he's refered to as "Second Lieutenant David Corwin" (which is prior to his promotion in "Exogenesis") which is where my confusion with regards his rank stems from (had a very clear memory of that caption and confused it with the on screen shout concerning his promotion).

Rank structures were never jms' strong point (along with ship designations and the ability to distinguish between two and three of things Minbari ;) )

The other thing to watch out for is Garibaldi's rank, or rather that of his subordinates. They aren't military personel, but, essentially, police. Their ranks do not fit into the command structure.
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby frobisher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:11 am

Mongoose Sharpy wrote:It definately uses the Navy rank system - 'as of 0630 hrs tomorrow morning, Lieutenant JG David Corwyn is promoted to Full Lieutenant'
-Kat the barkeeper, Exogenesis.
But see above. We're not at the O'Brien level of confusion on rank or close to it yet. I'd suggest, that for Fleet, the two terms are seemingly interchangeable. Personally, the Naval system works better for me, though much better if the "f" is pronounced in Lieutenant... ;)
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Postby Matt Sharp » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:25 am

frobisher wrote:The other thing to watch out for is Garibaldi's rank, or rather that of his subordinates. They aren't military personel, but, essentially, police. Their ranks do not fit into the command structure.
Again, you need to look at their uniforms ;)

They're all EarthForce personnel of Warrant Officer rank (Garibaldi's rank is mentioned by name during 'Between the Darkness and the Light') - I guess they're Millitary Police of some description.
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Postby frobisher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:45 am

Mongoose Sharpy wrote:Again, you need to look at their uniforms ;)

They're all EarthForce personnel of Warrant Officer rank (Garibaldi's rank is mentioned by name during 'Between the Darkness and the Light') - I guess they're Millitary Police of some description.
Erm, nope. The only security officer who carries an EF logo on their uniform is Garibaldi. His uniform is different from all the rest (the shade of grey is even slightly different). I've looked at the uniforms ;)

jms has been quite explicit in saying that B5 security are station employees not Earth Force. Hence no difficulty at all incorporating the Narn, which was done pre-split with the EA.

Sargeant Zack Allen is clearly not a Warrant Officer BTW.
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Postby lastbesthope » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:23 am

Yup, B5 security are not EF military.

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Postby Chernobyl » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:54 pm

Except there is a point of contradiction. In the on screen caption in "And Now For a Word" he's refered to as "Second Lieutenant David Corwin" (which is prior to his promotion in "Exogenesis") which is where my confusion with regards his rank stems from (had a very clear memory of that caption and confused it with the on screen shout concerning his promotion).
if I could count the number of times a reporter got a military reference incorrect or got their notes confused... :lol:

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Postby frobisher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:49 pm

Chernobyl wrote:if I could count the number of times a reporter got a military reference incorrect or got their notes confused... :lol:
I'd have expected "Lieutenant Commander" or "Lieutenant General" in this instance then.
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby Kizarvexis » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:39 am

frobisher wrote:
The Cheat wrote:O-7) Major:
And here's where everybody gets it wrong. Everyone assumes that major is a GROPOS rank, when both times we've seen one (War Without End, Severed Dreams, and in the unfilmed Crusade The End of the Line), he's been a primary command officer capable of ordering around important people, even captains.
Actually you're wrong here. Major Ryan defers to Sheriden in Severed Dreams. Not because he's "First Rebel" (name the game :) ) but because Sheriden outranks him. If General Hague had made it to Babylon 5 guess who whould have been running the show..?

The Major in charge of B4 again, followed Commander Sinclair's orders pretty much.
I agree that Major Ryan and Major Krantz both deferred to Cpt. Sheridan and Cmdr Sinclair respectively.
frobisher wrote:The guy in "End of Line" didn't pull rank, but "legitimate", signed orders and authority.
"End of Line"??
Chernobyl wrote:if I could count the number of times a reporter got a military reference incorrect or got their notes confused... :lol:

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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby frobisher » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:39 pm

Kizarvexis wrote:
frobisher wrote:The guy in "End of Line" didn't pull rank, but "legitimate", signed orders and authority.
"End of Line"??
The unfilmed last episode of season 1 Crusade; The script for which was briefly e-published and is described in the Crusade Fact Book.
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CudaHP
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:08 pm

Postby CudaHP » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:02 pm

Just remember with Michael Garibaldi he was in Earth Force and on Mars where he met Sinclair. Sinclair specifically brought Garibaldi aboard as Chief of security for Bab 5. With Garibaldi's inclusion as command Staff (Chief of Security) and Garibaldi was also flight qualified for the Starfury.
Garibaldi's role as a Chief Warrant Officer perfectly fits the use of such rank by current US Army. Many rotary and fixed wing Army pilots of Vietnam Era were Warrant Officer ranks.

The rest of Security were apparently civilian hires, but Garibaldi still held his EF rank.

As a further note, remember the US Navy had a unique group of Enlisted rank Pilots during and following WW II. My Father-in-law is a retired Naval Chief Petty Officer who belonged to that unique pilot group.

Little story here, true too. He loved the fact that by Naval Regulations when he was piloting the various aircraft he was in charge no matter what the rank of his passengers. Much as a ships captain is the absolute master of his vessel, so the enlisted pilot and his aircraft. That would not prevent a P.O.'d Admiral from raising all sorts of trouble after they had landed.
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EricRoss
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Re: Places Mongoose got it Wrong

Postby EricRoss » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:05 pm

The Cheat wrote:Most obvious is the Narn Biology section. You don't even mention the fact that Narns are marsupial, a constantly and consistently referenced detail from the show. I know you guys have already heard a lot about that, but it's on the list.
While in the Narn Regime Fact Book they do refer to Narn as Mammals, this is not acctually wrong, Since a marsupial is a mammal with external pouches in which their young develop. Just like a Cetacean is a mammal that lives in the ocean (dolphins and whales). So while Narn are not refered to as Marsupials in the Factbook, but refered to by their over-all classification of mammal could be slightly confusing, it is not acctually wrong. I won't bother to correct you on your assumptions on the rankstructure since a host of others have allready shown how wrong you are there.

Just a thought...the next time you decide to correct the B5 system, you might want to do some research and make sure you are not wrong, it could have saved you some embarrasement here to find out your wrong on your own instead of posting your mistaken opinions here for everyone to see and correct with the actual facts.
"If one listens more often then they speak, they often have their questions answered before they are asked"
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Michka
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Location: Rockford, Il

Postby Michka » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:28 pm

Is it funny to anyone else that The Cheat just censored a word after using the F-word?

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